Meeting to discuss homeless shelter tonight

Geeky Swedes Ballard

Just a reminder, tonight is the community meeting at Calvary Lutheran Church to discuss the controversial SHARE homeless shelter.

Earlier this month, Our Redeemer’s Lutheran Church, which manages the vacant Calvary Lutheran Church, decided to host the shelter without requiring sex offender background checks, a request made by many neighbors. The nighttime shelter of up to 20 men, currently in West Seattle, is moving in on May 30th. Tonight’s meeting will answer questions from the neighborhood about the shelter. It begins at 7 p.m. at Calvary Lutheran (7002 NW 23rd Ave.).

Geeky Swedes

The founders of My Ballard

66 thoughts to “Meeting to discuss homeless shelter tonight”

  1. I am honestly curious as to what this meeting is designed to accomplish. The congregation probably wants to clarify the shelter’s hours and responsibilities, but, as evidenced by this blog, the neighbors still want to discuss the shelter’s very existence.

    I can’t imagine any neighbors really hoping to get anything from this session. In the past few encounters, the congregation asked for feedback from the neighbors and then ignored it. Regardless of your feelings about the shelter, Our Redeemer’s has done an exceptionally poor job of making their case to the neighborhood. Neighbors’ concerns were generally treated as either lacking humanity or emerging from a false consciousness. Our Redeemer’s could probably make a good case for this shelter, but lost much credibility when they offered to discuss the issue and then shut down after the neighbors didn’t follow script.

    One hopes the meeting this evening will be productive, but there few opportunities for dialogue when all the relevant decisions have already been made.

  2. The meeting is obviously designed to accomplish the exact same thing that all of the city government's “public meetings”: it allows the organizers to put a check mark next to the box that says “provided an opportunity for public input.” The decisions have been made long before this meeting, the public's input be damned, and this is merely a way for them to pretend that they listened to the community.

    People who bother to show up thinking that there's actually going to be any dialog find that they are provided 30 seconds to vent as the meeting's designated recipient of the public's wrath sits there squirming uncomfortably without saying anything other than telling each person that their 30 seconds is up, next please, and then they move on. Successful meeting!!

    This is how “democracy” is handled now in Seattle. The people who rule over you think you're too stupid to notice.

  3. Completely agree. The church is going to do what they're going to do. Neighbor input is put down as ant-homeless sentiment and ignored. They didn't stop to work issues out with the neighbors then. Why would they now?
    I fully support a shelter there, btw. I just think shutting neighbors out of the process is only causing problems neither the people in the shelter or the neighbors need. There is anger now and there didn't need to be. Trouble will be brewing.

  4. I guess I'm just confused by the overhwhelming support of the congregation for the shelter – and what will the shelter actually accomplish? If it's just a place for 20 people to sleep at night – it's not going to accomplish ANYTHING. What happens when 30 people show up to sleep? 20 will get in, and the other 10 will find a resting spot in the neighborhood?

    If the congregation is so keen on having a shelter to “help” the homeless, why not do something more productive and actually rehabilitate 20 homeless people and get them off the street for good – rather than enabling the situation by giving them a place to sleep?

    How many of the congregation actually live in the vicinity of the shelter? And volunteers will check the shelter every night for the first month? What about the other eleven months the shelter is scheduled to be in operation?

    Poorly thought out. Not right for this neighborhood.

  5. What is the point of the meeting…? the decsion has been made regardless of how the neighbors feel about the lack of simple things like background checks to root out sex offenders and perhaps felons or persons wanted by the police…The church is doing whtever they want anyway. I hope the dedicated Pastor who allowed this deccison to be made will sleep well at night if one child or one person is harmed in any way in this community as a result of the decision…SHARE too…20 men, not even part of our community are being added to the many homeless already here…just what we need! What can't West Seattle keep them??

  6. Friends,

    A number of commenters on earlier posts had asked the question of whether “Megan's Law” might apply here. At the request of some of those commenters, I looked into the issue and asked Attorney General Rob McKenna's office and legislative staff whether there might be any sort of state issue. The answer is no. The obligation in state law on this issue rests with registered sex offenders themselves and not organizations that might host or house them.

    For your information, here is the response I received from my inquiry to the legislative staff:

    “Churches are not obligated to perform background checks on individuals living in tent camps on their property. This does not violate Megan’s law which simply requires sex offenders to be registered with law enforcement and requires law enforcement to notify the community about the offender. The type and amount of information available to the public is primarily determined by the offender’s risk level.

    The attached article indicates that SHARE doesn’t allow homeless sex offenders to live in tent camps. Any organization (or any citizen) can find out if a person is a registered sex offender by checking our centralized sex offender registry website or by calling local law enforcement.

    There are no state liability implications because the tent camp is being hosted by a private organization on private property. A potential exception is if a crime was committed in one of these camps by a registered sex offender under community supervision by the State Dept. of Corrections.”

    I personally deeply appreciate SHARE's sense of moral obligation to house the homeless, and I honor their conviction. I am struck, however, why there is not a sense of subtle appreciation that the church enjoys the benefits of being in a 100% residential area and with that honor should come some added obligation to connect with the desire of many neighbors to have an added layer of research to ensure the safety and comfort of the area for children. As the father of four young children, I just don't understand why that isn't viewed as a win-win.

    I wish the community and SHARE the very best in making the dialogue meaningful, gracious and productive.

  7. Thank you Reverend. Yes, this is a VERY residential neighborhood this church is in and one obligation they do have is to the concerns of their neighbors. There are legitimate safety concerns that were brushed aside.

  8. If you listened instead of going in a paranois frenzy, you would know that the screening is done downtown and that no one shows up at the shelters who is not a shelter participant.

  9. Sorry getoverit! Many do show up at all hours, all the time; If you could have heard the fighting and screaming at the Trinity shelter at 3 a.m. this last monday,( this became a police matter), you would change your tune. I feed sorry for this neighborhood.

    This is all about money, not love!

  10. Hello!
    I wanted to clear up that last comment Jim made.
    Here is what happened on Monday:
    (you can check police records on this)

    A drunk man in his early 20's with a skateboard was terrorizing the neighborhood and as he past by Trinity UMC he used the skateboard to beat the living crap out of a car parked in the angled parking strip outide the building, breaking the passenger side window and front windshield.
    The caretaker on site was awoken and saw the second swing, so were the shelter residence, as this man screamed and hollered on a drunken tirade. The TrinityUMC caretaker called 911 then tryed to engage the man in conversation while the police said they would be 5 min. The man yelled and screamed some more before traveling West. It took the police *45 min* to show up at Trinity UMC to take the report.
    So that we are clear, this was not a shelter resident or anyone associated with the shelter residences.
    In short a neighborhood drunk was responsible for the disturbance and vandalized the car.

    Assumptions are dangerous.

  11. Thank you Rep. Carlyle for looking into whether Megan's Law applies to this shelter.

    It seems like there are two loopholes that line up to create a very dangerous situation for the neighborhood.

    Loophole #1 – A church can host a homeless shelter in a residential area because helping the homeless is seen as part of its mission.

    Loophole #2 – A sex offender who is homeless does not have to register a permanent address.

    So, a level 3 sex offender could live at this shelter for a year and the neighbors would not be protected by the laws which should warn them of the sex offender's presence. Is it unreasonable to add a law that says a church which runs a homeless shelter in a residential neighborhood must check for sex offenders? Is an initiative our best route for making this a law?

  12. Let's live and let live and if the concerns are justified we will deal with it.
    If they are not, I'd like to start taking names so I can gather us to apologize..will that be so forthcoming as the camera and pre judgment that has happened so far or will you all just fade into the woodwork?

  14. I think the paranoia is getting out of hand. Reality is your child is FAR more likely to be killed while you drive them to school than by a homeless person. That is a statistical fact. Your child is also more likely to be struck by lightning or killed through a medical mistake by your family doctor than killed by a homeless person.

    BTW, should apartment owners and mortgage brokers also check if someone is a registered sex offender before allowing them to rent or buy a home? Should people convicted of theft or assault also be denied housing? Guarantee there are plenty of non-homeless people out there with less than angelic backgrounds living in Ballard.

  15. The 'screening' done downtown is a sham side show. There is no check for active warrants (running from the law) or level 3 sexual predator status (avoidance of a registered domicile). Those who believe this is a thorough screening are simpletons who want to believe that everyone down on their luck are honest.

  16. Thank you for your attention to this, Mr. Carlyle. Is there any chance you or someone from your office could attend this meeting tonight? It would be nice to have our local representative hear both sides of this first-hand, and to visit the neighborhood/property in question.

  17. In addition, SHARE said they check against the “all-shelter bar list” when doing interviews (which means past offenders can't stay) – except they don't check i.d.s unless the interviewer thinks the interviewee is “sketchy” (from a SHARE member)

  18. I think the law would need to be changed to be that if an offender is at a fixed address (would need to have a definition of fixed – > week, etc.) then they have to register (and not just as “homeless” like they can now when staying at a shelter).

  19. Some random thoughts –

    I live right behind the church. I feel like I should go to the meeting but don’t really want to. I don’t see the point. They are just going to tell us how it’s going to be. It’s been that way from the very start. Our concerns do not matter. The church has never responded to my e-mails or phone calls.

    I do wonder how the men who will be staying at the church intend to deal with what already goes on behind the church. Given my vantage point, I see and hear a lot. You’d be surprised what goes on in that space (or maybe not). There are homeless who camp in the area (at night) already. Last summer someone tried to set the church on fire. I will say I do not believe that the homeless were responsible for fire. I’ll denigrate another group. I think it was teenagers.

    I keep reading that the church neighbors have these preconceived, irrational and unfounded fears concerning the homeless. I don't think that's true. It's just name calling and justification for dismissing their concerns. When they first opened the soup kitchen, I didn’t give it a second thought. I thought – how nice. My current concerns are based on what I experienced with the soup kitchen patrons and the church’s lack of accountability over the last seven years.

  20. Are we going to post another 300 comments about whether or not they should do background checks on 20 men? Talk about a distraction… The answer is no. They refuse to do it. We are stuck with it.

    Now, can we move on to others issues that we might actually have some control over? Like, why the police refuse to enforce a single law when it comes to transients, and why the have free run over Ballard suddenly? Why the churches and Food bank are not helping solve the crime issues they created?

    Zero laws enforced, from basic rules about where to go to the restroom, all the way up to a homless man lighting his underwear on fire and setting the restroom in Starbucks ablaze as few weeks back, because he was 86st. Not to mention the 7 11 open air nightly drug market. The house behind Sip n Ship is back open and full of druggies once again… I mean, we have bigger fish to fry people than 20 men in a church.

    You are not getting background checks. Let's at least move on to figuring out how to get the drug dealers out of Bergen Park, in frount of 7 11, up and down Market Street, and everywhere else. Let try to ask why the police allow open beer containers, passing out on sidewalks, harrassing people sitting outside cafe's and every other problem the is causing business in Ballard to come to a screeching and grind halt. If you can't get the Meth heads out of Bergen Park, remove the benches… Do something aside from blog about 20 men, will ya? I saw people being hassled by the real change guy trying to eat outside Lombardis today. This place is becoming Hell. Try sitting outside ANY business on Market Street this summer. You will go totally nuts and will be harrassed every 3 minutes.

    You people are blogging about background checks, when we have Meth and Crack dealers walking up and down the sidewalks, and the cops only response is maybe we should hire to off duty police if we want laws enforced. They break into shop nightly, knowing it is impossible to be arrested in Ballard for it these days.

    Pay for basic police by taking up a collection jar? That is how it's done in Mexico City. We pay for police with taxes. We need to bribe them with extra money to show up in Ballard and do their jobs?

  21. I think if we regularly had wild bears wandering around Ballard it might help some of the career transients and drug dealers find a new area to hang out.

  23. I'm still very irritated by how SHARE and Our Redeemers have acted like some spoiled bullies who if you say anything they don't like to them they call you names like NIMBY and tell you you aren't living the Christian way of compassion. But when all is said and done, I think that there probably won't be as many problems with the night shelter as there was when the soup kitchen was there. And as someone who has volunteered with the Ballard Food Bank extensively, I feel really bad about how the meal program played out. The vision of that program was for the families we saw regularly at the food bank to have access to one free, hot meal per day. But BFB did not have the experience or the resources to provide the right kind of oversight and what ended up happening is a bunch of jerks who felt a lot of entitlement ran out the people the meal program was intended to help – and the lack of oversight let that happen. I'm really hoping the same thing doesn't happen with this SHARE shelter. But my understanding is there is a core group of guys that are going to stay there and that they have been staying together for awhile now. I'm hoping that aspect will help bring in this elusive oversight that seems to be missing in translation. Anyway – it doesn't matter that SHARE is one of the most poorly run shelter systems I've encountered – the shelter is going in no matter what any one says. I think it's important to focus on what we all can do to make this a positive experience for ourselves as neighbors and the men who do need the help and will use the help to better themselves. And I hope that this ridiculous feeling of “us against them” can end. Honestly, I find a lot of that coming from SHARE – I hope the men who stay in their shelters will see that the neighbors are not the uncaring monsters that the propaganda says we are.

  24. People who have active warrants for their arrest and those level 3 sex offenders who have registered, as required by law, can be found at their domicile in Ballard.

    If you are running from the law, accountability or consequence and chose to be homeless, SHARE provides a wonderful service. SHARE knows that churches can be bullied into acceptance without requiring any background checks, even when neighbors of the shelter request it. The church could have made background checks mandatory but abandoned that idea thinking that the 'mission' with a bit of 'sanctuary' thrown in was necessary to accommodate SHARE's acceptance.

    BTW, how many of these men are running from their present problems?

  25. I doubt you are a neighboor, except in the shelter; you should be looking for work and not sitting on line at the library,
    Strange that a “neighborhood drunk” just happened to show up at 3 in the morning at your shelter to supposedly whack on cars….another spin job brought to you by”you know who”…….

  26. Thank you sir. I'm grateful that you looked into the issue, and provided info that needed to be known.
    Q. Do you feel that SHARE as an entity deserves the support of any community?
    I'd like to hear that answer, and why you believe it to be so.
    I personally despise their mission, and their processes, for what it's worth.
    They don't belong anywhere near a neighborhood, imho.

  27. Yes, that's how you get protection in Mexico, you pay for it, or you don't get it.
    It's sad when that issue comes to Ballard, especially, since I've 'hit that tip jar' repeatedly, thanks for nothing, wish I could 'opt out', because Ballard is getting screwed like the poor in Mexico.

  28. Q. Will SHARE get the lazy couple with the dog housed? Or, do they draw the line at dogs….sheeesh. It's almost funny as hell…almost.

  29. That was my thought from the beginning, color tri-fold brochures, being handed out to every inmate and transient in the nation. 'Say Wa?' lol Welcome to Ballard!

  30. A lot of excellent points, Ballardmom. And I admit to being a little harsh towards SHARE and it's attitude. Now that the shelter is here, however, I hope it and the neighbors can live well together.

  31. Thanks

    This is called City and Police Corruption. When you see cops on bikes, horses, cars, on foot and everything else all over downtown, The U District and Capital Hill by the dozens, and we are told they “don't have the resources” to provide even two bike cops to Ballard, that is a lie and there is something very currupt going on.

    We had a man almost beaten to death here, and they say take up a collection jar and pay 150 pr hour for off duty cops if we want basic police services?

    You can point out the drug dealers and give them pictures of the dealing but they brush you off as being the problem?

    There is something more than meets the eye going on here, and it's coming from City Hall and the Police Department itself.

    My sources say Nickels is running on the campain slogan “The Mayor that cleaned up Downtown”

    Yes, by having the police drive them up here, and ordering them not to enforce any laws on transients in Ballard until after the election. It is fact people. This is how politics work in the world of grown ups.

  32. I am a neighbor. I am a Ballard resident & parent.

    This 'kid' (20ish) was reported to the police by other Ballard residents that night blocks down south of the church then north & west of the church. He didn't target Trinity UMC or the shelter, he was on a tirade through Ballard.

    Again your assumptions about the disturbance Monday night are wrong, mean spirited and help no one. If anything, just help feed a fear mentality.

    Are you just going to get angrier, meaner throw more wild assumptions around beacuse you cannot accept the reality that you are wrong about this? Should I be worried about you, neighbor?

  33. The guy and fat girl with the Pitbull are the ones who lit the mans underpants on fire, and set a blaze in the garbage can inside Starbucks.

    Of course, the cops are under orders not to enforce any laws on transient in Ballard until after the election. We would not want them to go back downtown where the voters will have to deal with the burning underwear and arson on historic buildings.

  35. It's Free Food Wednesday. I drove by the food bank today and there were lots of sketchy looking characters hanging out all over the place. They were probably waiting for the bum shuttle to Bergen Place.

  38. All I can say is you really need to get out and travel!! Hell?? Are you kidding me?? How sheltered a life you must live! You want hell try visiting the Tenderloin in SF, the South Bronx in NYC, south Phoenix, most of Detroit or Cabrini Green in Chicago. Seriously, have ever spent any time outside of Seattle?? Yeah, things in Ballard have gone downhill but seriously if you think it's hell then you really don't know what you're talking about.

    BTW I had lunch on Market and wasn't harassed once.

  39. Strongly agree with Free Ballard 4 Reel; the church is a done deal. Let's go after the low-hanging fruit. Keep taking pictures and video tape. If you see a bunch of folks in one spot drinking or using, call 911. The police will respond. At some point, it would be great if we could all brainstorm and come up with a list of our top ten action items. At this time, I'm personally looking for and documenting areas of concern. For example, RVs and car campers that haven't moved for days on end. I'm also looking for makeshift shelters and piles of trash. I feel profiling chronic offenders is necessary as well.

  40. apololize? Are you freaking kidding me? i havent received a single apology from the angelic homeless who pissed all over my lawn, use it as a bed and a garbage can. The ones who were shooting up in the neighbors driveway actually threatened me. I'm sure these new fellas will be a higher caliber of bum. all i want is for these bussed in non-residents to behave. they seem to be incapable of it and i wont apologize for not wanting them in my neighborhood. And yes i live across the street from this proposed damn shelter.

  41. Yes, beacuse you are lumping all these lawn pissers in with homeless folks trying to get it together. I really truly believe these folks will prove themselves good neighbors.
    You are all so ready to convict, or have already.

  42. I had lunch on Greenwood a couple days ago and some crazy guy started screaming at me and threatening me when all I was doing was sitting and eating a sandwich. I actually lived in the Tenderloin in S.F. years ago. There were a lot of criminals but Seattle has a lot more untreated psychotics roaming the streets.

  44. these are the same people. why is that so difficult to understand? these are freeloaders who are taking a free ride at our expense. there is nothing in the share system to force them back on their feet. homeless for 20 years? typical.

  45. Have you ever heard of nickels' neighborhood policing plan? Nickels has added quite a few cops since he has been in office with many more to come and is definitely not just focusing on downtown. The demand for new officers has actually outpaced the supply with the department having trouble finding applicants.

  47. For those seeking an alternative to the sham that is SHARE, please consider attending an upcoming meeting to learn more about Congregations for the Homeless. I saw this posted in the forum section:

    Meeting announcement to come and learn about “an exciting possible resource,
    a new model that assists the homeless into health, housing and stability.”

    Here’s the link:

    Congregations for the Homeless*
    http://www.cfhomeless.org/
    * First suggested by “giz” posted on the MyBallard blog

    CFH Newsletter
    http://www.cfhomeless.org/newsletter/CFH-newsle…

    We’ve invited Paul Tomilinson of the “life coaching” part of the program to
    be with us Sunday evening May 24th at 7pm. We’ll meet at Trinity United
    Methodist (6512 23rd Ave. NW)

    The exciting part of all this is that most of us are seeking for different
    models than merely putting a roof over heads and food in bellies. That
    good, charitable work has driven us to seek the next step so that we can
    help birth new possibilities that result in the homeless learning anew to
    stand on their own two feet as contributers towards the common good.

    The model assumes cooperation between congregations and networks. It is a
    very exciting possibility.

    So, ya’ll come … let’s begin this phase of conversation leading toward
    action. Feel free to invite others interested. If you are a member of a
    congregation, let the Pastor and the congregation know. If a community
    member, let your networks know. We’re all in this together.

    Rev. Rich Lang
    Trinity United Methodist

  48. I have seen the heavy woman and husband with the pit bull following a smallish homeless man around making threats to him. They were walking behind him, hissing , and harassing him, and wouldn't back off. Their level of aggression seems to be growing since they first showed up a couple of years ago. It is difficult to report something like this to 911 since it is happening on the move. It is also too scary to step into with good intentions because of the pit bull. They play very roughly with the dog, not advisable with a pit bull. Any suggestions on handling something like this?

  51. Simply ignore them and keep posting to warn others, but absolutely report them if you see a crime committed. In the past 6 months I have overhead at least 3 business owners complain about them and I'm not even that well connected. Eventually they will move on or be taken away. Don't be scared though, they won't do anything if you simply walk away.

  52. The guy is very very violent. He has come totally unglued many many times, totally out of the blue, on strangers. That is a fact

  53. Hah! That's laughable.

    People here have tried to work with the city, tried to get more cops in Ballard. They're told it's not going to happen, period.

    Nickels is a liar.

  54. Exactly, thats why you should turn him down and walk away. I'm sure they are used to it and we haven't heard any reports of them attacking anyone that simply said “no”. Keep the community informed of about these two, and report any crimes you see committed. Don't be scared though, nothing will happen if you leave them alone.

  55. Thanks for posting that. This is something I would interested in supporting – something that aspires to actually help people instead of just tossing them in an abandoned building and calling it charity.

  57. In fact there is more of a police presence in ballard, we just haven't seen any beat cops. They are busy taking 911 calls and reports on property crimes. Remember that car jacking a month ago? They had the perp in a hot second. They are prioritizing by focusing on crime, not vagrancy.

    Nickels has a great plan but it hasn't been completed yet mostly due to funding. The city is in the red when it comes to money now days. Maybe someone needs to start a city initiative to raise some taxes in the short term for neighborhood police. With the major decrease in sales tax revenue, just about everything is on the chopping block and only so much can be done.

  58. The car jacking 'perp' was apprehended thanks to thugs that were assaulting folks in Ballard that night, the numerous 911 calls had the men in blue on hand to do the job for that incident.
    Realist, change your name. The revenue for the state, the city, the county, are all up, period. They (our not so humble elected a**holes) decided to spend more than the increased revenue. Obviously, it wasn't spent to improve public safety. Any questions? Direct them to McCheese…

  59. Thanks, me too. I've fed the dog, many times, and see it as enabling these days.
    “excuse me sir…do you have a dollar for my lazy ass?”
    …”yeah, leave me the dog, here's twenty bucks”….
    I wish I could, but , my cat says 'hell no!'

  61. You have it wrong, those “a** holes” budgeted spending based on projected revenue. You are just plain ignorant if you think that revenue has been up, most of the revenue is from sales tax and the economy is s***. The bubble burst and all the projected revenue went down the toilet.

    Fact is there is a much higher number of police on the streets than a few years ago, and our crime rate is still way lower than comparable cities of our size.

    The fact is no one has a decent platform to run against Nickels. Thats why there isn't any real candidates opposing him. Anyone with half a brain supports his policies and isn't going to run against the incumbent.

  62. Hello? The guy was in a brawl in the middle of Bergen Park the saturday before last… It was blogged about here in fact. He is in fights all the time.

  63. Hello? He got 86st from Starbucks and tried to burn the building down by lighting his underwear on fire and setting the bathroom ablaze… You are living in fantasyland. The guy is dangerous as hell.

  64. I'll agree with you that seattle has a lot more psychotics as opposed to criminals compared to the tenderloin. I've seen some hardcore stuff happen down in SF compared to anything in seattle. Psychotics are annoying and dangerous, criminals are extremely dangerous. This is why we need to petition gregoire to maintain the general assistance unemployable (GAU) program through all of these budget cuts. If these people don't get the treatment they need, its going to cost us all a lot more in the long run.

    Check out this link:
    http://news.opb.org/article/4791-wa-house-and-s…

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