A neighbor asks drivers to ‘slow down’

Geeky Swedes Ballard

There has been discussion in the forum about people speeding on both the main drags and on the side streets of Ballard.

Running errands today we saw this sign on 11th Ave NW. Apparently the homeowner isn’t happy with drivers speeding down this tree-lined street. No one answered when we knocked on the door so we don’t know if the sign is working.

Geeky Swedes

The founders of My Ballard

85 thoughts to “A neighbor asks drivers to ‘slow down’”

  1. Walked by this yesterday–near Whittier Heights? As a resident of the neighborhood, I appreciate any attempt to get people to slow down and pay attention as they zip through unmarked intersections, where everybody seems to think they have the right of way.

    Thanks, “Slow Down” sign-maker,

    Your neighbors.

  2. I really don't understand why people speed down the side streets. Not only are the streets narrow, but there are roundabouts at every intersection.

    Then again, I'm one of those who will slow down to an almost stop at the roundabouts. I've almost been hit too many times by people who don't understand the rules of the roundabout.

  3. I applaud this neighbor.

    People drive way to fast on the aterials and residential streets in Ballard. It's dangerous, it's stupid.

    I drive a decently fast, turbo-charged rice car, but make a point of going slow around round abouts, the cramped residential, and busy arterial streets typical of Ballard. However, seems like every night some jerks feel the need to zoom around in their rice cars, harleys, jalopys, etc. When I lived near the speed shop near 15th and market, i'd hear the rumble of boxer engines going way too fast all day and night.

  4. People drive fast because they are in their comfort zone. Ever hear the stat that most people get into accidents within 3 miles of their homes…..

  5. Driving back west from Ken's Market on Phinney the other day, I was suddenly surrounded by a dozen yellow plastic cutouts of children rushing into the street, of the kind described here:
    http://www.gazette.net/stories/070307/montnew41…

    The cutouts kept going for a block or two, making me think that there must be a lot of residents of 73rd Street who are angry about the traffic there.

    I have sympathy for people whose houses aren't on arterials but who nevertheless have people speeding by. I hate it when people speed down my street.

    On the other hand, the sheer number of the cutouts felt more like an expression of rage than an attempt to change driver behavior. And I wonder if the cutouts might distract a driver from an /actual/ child running into the street.

    These people do live a block away from a thriving supermarket. And there'll just be more traffic after Ken's expands. Hopefully they can convince the city to put in a slalom course or something.

  6. We got the city to install a traffic circle at the end of our block last year, and while that made the intersection less scary, it didn't really slow people down on the street itself.

    So we petitioned the city for another traffic circle at the other end of the block, and some speed bumps (some neighborhood grant writing was involved I believe). Personally, I'm pro-circle, but anti-speed bump. But enough of the neighbors signed the speed-bump petition, that they got approved. Democracy in action, and I'm fine with that outcome.

    So far (maybe a month later), I haven't observed a significant change in speed. People go way to fast, slow down hard for the speed bump, speed up again, then slow down for the next speed bump. It would be almost comical if it wasn't so ridiculous. All I can hope is that eventually, the bumps annoy enough of the passers-through, that we simply won't have the high traffic numbers anymore, and therefore less speeders. Of course that only shifts them to alternate side streets. Sorry neighbors on the next couple of blocks over.

  8. Hopefully, before a child dies, folks will realize that it's not worth the few seconds that they think they are saving.
    No second is worth it.
    Again, relax, enjoy your auto.
    At least for as long as they are allowed to exist….

  11. unfortunately, there aren't 'roundabouts' at every intersection. I frequently see people barrel down these side streets oblivious to cross- traffic.

    unfortunately, they aren't really 'roundabouts' either, they're 'traffic circles' or 'islands' or something, and the rules are quite different.

    for instance, at these 'islands', it's technically legal to go left (clockwise) around the islands, and I do this all the time (safely, mind you, but still to other driver's dismay).

  12. Three cheers for this home-owner! People drive WAY too fast on these side streets, especially (but certainly not limited to) the folks coming off of 15th or Market. You're not on a main drag anymore. Slow down!

  13. What? It's legal to go clockwise around the islands? That's horrifying. Can you point to something that describes that law?

    I've seen one accident and several near-misses caused by people cutting off the island while making a left turn.

  14. Exactly. These are not roundabouts – at least not in the sense that the rest of the world uses the term. Heaven forbid we actually have real roundabouts. I don't think the motorists in this town would be able to figure them out which is too bad since they increase traffic flow and decrease accidents.

  16. Too many people have 'discovered' this route between Phinney and 8th, and some of them are too used to it and speed through it.
    I think a random ball tossed out into the street would do a better job than the army of neon green people.

  17. Doing it intentionally to slow people down is dumb, dangerous, and counter productive. Read the comments on the newspaper sites under any bike story and think if you really want to have one of those people come up behind you while you're riding down the middle of the road.

  19. So I know I will be flamed for this, but just to shed some light on the regulations.

    Traffic Circles
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46…

    I got in an accident with a person that cut the corner. They were at fault.

    Signage on the side of roadways
    http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs….

    Riding in the middle of the street on a bicycle
    http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs….

    I ride in the middle of the road as well, but if the car isnt going over the speed limit (even though its hard to tell exactly) I move right like I am supposed to.

  20. Without looking it up, I believe that the local law on this is that you can turn left at an island if you're driving a truck that can't go around to the right. Otherwise you have to go around 3/4 on the right side. Not that you'd get a ticket either way as there just aren't any cops around, but if you go left and someone speeding up the road hits you, you'll be at fault.

  22. Okay, so I looked it up:

    “Whenever any street has been divided into two (2) or more roadways by a physical barrier or by a planted area or by a median island not less than eighteen inches (18”) wide formed either by solid yellow pavement markings or by a yellow cross-hatching between two (2) solid yellow lines so installed as to control vehicular traffic, every vehicle shall be driven only upon the right-hand roadway unless directed or permitted to use another roadway by official traffic-control devices or peace officers.

    No vehicle shall be driven over, across or within any such physical barrier or planted area or median island, except through an opening in such physical barrier or planted area or median island, or at a crossover or intersection established by public authority. (RCW 46.61.150)”

    Seattle PI did an ask the cop piece on it:
    http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/archives/1…

  23. The problem is the people who speed are usually not smart enough to do the math. If they did they'd realize that a 10 mph increase in speed isn't going to get you anywhere in a noticeably shorter time. Even over the course of a few miles you're only talking about saving a few seconds.

    I think this is why cars don't include an average speed function. If they did people would probably get very depressed or angry when they realized their $30,000 car capable of going over 100mph in reality averages a slower speed than a bike racer. I'm not making that up BTW – average traffic speeds in most cities are slower than the average speeds of pro bike racers (this year the winner of the Tour de France averaged over 25mph for a 2,143 mile race that included climbing both the Alps and Pyrennes mountain ranges).

  24. I totally sympathize. I'm the lady who stands on my front lawn & yells “slow down” to people speeding by. I think a lot of folks just don't realize that all the side streets are 20 mph speed limits. Driving at 20 mph is really slow and painful if you feel like you are in a hurry, but its also the safest speed for residential streets. I try really hard to practice what I preach (or yell) and its hard to stick to 20. But folks, please try. My kids are out there riding their bikes and playing soccer. Make sure that you aren't the one annoyed at speeders on your street & then speeding down your neighbors!

  25. BRAVO! There is also a nice sign on NW 65th & 34th NW that reads something like, “Slow Down, Your Friends and Neighbors Live Here.” I live on 28th NW & NW 68th and even though we have the big bumps a few door down, people come speeding down the hill.

    A quick story from this afternoon about a driver going the speed limit that saved about three lives today:

    My neighbor and I were out at the sidewalk on 28th NW while our children were playing. We heard a screech of tires and witnessed a very near-miss which would have been horrifying. Three or four kids, ages about 7 – 10, would have been hit.

    A summer camp group of about 20 kids was crossing 28th NW at NW 67th, heading eastbound across 28th (probably coming back from Webster Park). The group had broken into two groups, one group already across the street and on the sidewalk. Of the second groups of kids, a pack of about five were running to catch up and did not stop before running into the street. Thank whomever, but the driving of the truck, going probably just a bit over the speed limit was able to stop, the kids were all able to stop and two of the kids had to jump back to avoid the car.

    UNFRICKING BELIEVABLE.

    The kids were wearing bright yellow and green shirts (which probably helped visibility) and the camp counselors were wearing purple (or at least the young woman with dark hair with the group that almost got hit).

    The rest of the kids caught up with kids who were nearly hit (with the adult in charge). The kids, the truck, me and my neighbor were all frozen for about 20 seconds. It was so, so close.

    So, kudos, thank you and three-cheers Mr. Pick Up Truck driver for being a responsible, attentive and responsive driver. You absolutely saved the lives of those children today.

  28. There's a guy on our street who also does that. I'm on 18th and people constantly speed down our street trying to get to Soundview park (only to then realize the road doesn't go through!) On a weekend afternoon there are a lot of kids out playing, almost a dozen under the age of 5 on just our one block. I keep thinking it's just a matter of time before one of them gets hurt. Of course if it happens the police will consider it an “accident” and the courts will most likely not even punish the driver. Amazing how reluctant we are to hold drivers accountable for their actions.

  29. PhinneyWood has a nice piece on this with some comments from the neighbors who put out the “slow down guys”.
    http://www.phinneywood.com/2009/08/17/safety-fi…

    We live a few blocks North and West of there and know one one the families. I'd say it's about frustration rather than anger and the idea if one or two are effective 4 or more will be more so. Also the lions share of the drivers on 73rd seem to feel that it should be an arterial, and yes the expansion of Ken's is likely to make this worse. The city in it's infinite wisdom, however, deemed “that the traffic impact would be minimal” and that no traffic calming measures would be required of the project.

    We have one of those plastic guys and put it out when the kids are out playing on the sidewalk. It definitely does help slow down traffic on our block

  31. Kudos to the person that made the sign. Though I'd be surprised if it really made a difference. People who speed down our residential streets are not likely to heed the sign…just as they are not likely to have the thoughtfulness to realize that there are kids, dog walkers, cyclists, people entering and exiting their parked vehicles and other sudden obstacles that could enter their path. Those who normally speed down that street may slow down the 1st time they notice the sign. But after that it will just become another part of the landscape to them.

  32. I've said it before and I'll say it again…Drivers in the US are poorly trained and not challenged in the testing process. A more stringent test process is sorely needed. I would have no problem with a 90% failure rate on the first attempt at the written exam. Let people study and take it over and over until they understand the rules of the road. It's not hyperbole to say that our very lives depend on people knowing how to drive properly.

  33. It isn't logic that's lacking, it's emotion that's present. It FEELS good to get moving quickly, it FEELS good to go fast. You can explain it all you like, people will still get frustrated and try to go faster.

  35. People cut north up Dibble from 65th in order to bypass the backup at the left turn light onto 8th. I'm not sure why, because it's hard to then get back out onto 8th. Which is probably why they feel they have to storm up our street, engine gunning – to speed up AND show their displeasure.

    I too am the “slow the **** down” lady and have considered getting a sign that says “slow down – you are on speeders camera” getting a scary flashing camera on a pole to put out every night about 4pm.

  36. I don't ride obnoxiously slow. I'm really not out to piss people off–there's enough driver/biker angst out there.

    The truth is, even the speed limit (25, in most areas) is way too fast when driving down one-lane roads.

    People should use their best judgement and common sense when driving through these neighborhoods. As it's been pointed out, one “accident” can ruin a lot of lives. Take your time and be careful.

  37. I and most of the kids on our block yell “slow down!!!” It's comical to hear all the kids yell it at once.

    People need to realize how horrible their life and the person's life/family will be if they hit someone.

    >>>Slow down, get off your phone, pay attention, get home safe. It's simple.<<<

  39. Here's how I think of it. When I'm driving down a side street or other residential street, I think to myself there are people just like me living in these homes. It is a matter of respect for your fellow humans to keep the neighborhood safe. It is safer to drive slower, so thats what I do. So simple, so fundamental. Its like when you see a cyclist. No matter what they are doing, my car is bigger, and they are a life. I will slow down and yield to them. Respect other human life as you would your very own. If everyone did this we might be a lot better off. I'm not saying that accidents don't happen, but if we just used our brains once in a while…

  40. I have severe problem with people not understanding the concept of yielding to right-of-way on an intersection without any signs. I run into this all the time on 75th and 77th Avenues with speeding drivers who assume people traveling north & south will yield/stop for them.

  42. From Charles E. Brown's Bumper to Bumper column in the Seattle Times:
    “Seattle Department of Transportation spokeswoman Liz Rankin says traffic circles should be treated as uncontrolled intersections. When two or more motorists approach the traffic circle, the driver on the right has the right-of-way.
    Those circles are designed to slow cars and create a safer environment for pedestrians as well as other vehicles. Most motorists round the circles to the right. But that's not an absolute, Rankin says. Based on her department's interpretation of the traffic code's description of a left turn, she says it's legal to take the short left around the circle — when it is safe and practical to do so. As a result, larger vehicles, which wouldn't be able to go all the way around to the right, can use that option”.

  43. Thanks for the link, NormFox. I should have thought to look there. Sounds like that block just leaves the green guys out all the time, not just when kids are out.

    I can understand their frustration, especially with SDOT — if there are more speeders on that block than on adjacent blocks (probably due to Ken's) then there should be a bump or roundabout or something.

    But it seems very boy-who-cried-wolf-ish. If drivers get used to those kid signs being there all the time, they'll ignore them, and when kids /are/ out, there's nothing special to indicate that extra caution is warranted.

  44. I agree. I live right off of 75th and have seen many accidents and close-calls because people cutting through the neighborhood on 75th just assume they have the right-of-way, when really they're all unmarked intersections. From what I understand unmarked intersections should be treated as 4-way yields. I've upset lots of drivers cruising along, when they've expected me to just stop for them, even though I've approached the intersection first.

    Makes me want to make my own signs.

  45. Well every time you leave your house to run errands you are within 3 miles of your home. So statistically when you get into an accident you will be where you are most often. Sorry there are Lies, Dang Lies and worst of all: Statistics.

  48. It's less the issue of Ken's being there and more the layout of the streets. I'm not going to say more as I don't really want to encourage this street becoming a thoroughfare, but some streets around Phinney are easier to get through than others. Unfortunately the one we're supposed to use, 65th also happens to be one of the slowest.

  49. That's what I said, as I have friends who live near there, so I drive past sometimes. The first time we noticed the extras, we were creeping along, expecting a herd of children to swoop into the street in front of us, but we didn't see a single one. Now that I've gone by a few times, I still haven't seen a single child in the vicinity of those things doing anything.
    I think they are going to end up getting ignored by people who don't see kids out more often than they do. They should only be out when the children are, so that drivers know to be extra, extra careful when they see those.

  50. I have heard/read things before indicating that you can go to the left “if it is safe, no cars coming, blahblahblah” which I think is a terrible idea. I see people going to the left all the time when I am driving, even though they see me coming, they are sure they have plenty of time to sneak to the left before I get there.
    I wish everyone would just stop doing that. Talk about lazy. It takes about a fraction of a second longer to go all the way around one of those things than it does to slip by on the left, and go around is about a million times safer.
    If your car (assuming you are driving a regular, everyday vehicle and are not the guy who drives the garbage truck) cannot easily make it around the circle, it is too big (Hummer???) or you are doing something wrong.

  51. Unfortunately, many people don't understand how a 4-way stop works either! Or they are not paying attention, and don't know when their turn is so they close their eyes annnnnnnnd….GO! Or they just don't pay attention and just breeze through through the whole thing….I see it all the time. 4-way stop at 65th and 3rd is THE WORST. I've been going through that intersection on my way to work or back home for the last 13 years, so I am super familiar with it, and super careful about it. I have witnessed more stupidity there….

  52. Used to be in Ballard the sign would say “Speed Up”. Ballardites were known were known for slow driving before all this “immigration” occurred.

    Seriously though the moron drivers really, really need to slow down; too many little ones running around and this not the freeway.

    What would really help is a few SPD cars hanging out in the residential streets writing tickets. Word would spread like wild fire.

  53. regarding traffic circles:
    is it any wonder there's so much confusion amongst drivers when you get a different answer of legality based on which police officer or DOT spokesman you talk to?

    I don't drive a very large car and will continue to go left around the circles, evenwhen I'm going straight through the intersection. makes me feel like I'm back in jolly old England.

  54. “People should use their best judgement and common sense when driving through these neighborhoods.”

    And yet you feel the need to decide for them by riding slowly down the middle of the road?

  55. Well, really, I don't do it to slow cars down, but I do ride in the middle of the street on arterials because that is the safest place to be. People in neighborhoods tend not to look for bikes when opening doors or pulling out. The net result is that cars do slow down behind me, but with our narrow arterials, I don't see this as a problem. Not my problem if you don't like it.

  56. I'm with Juan on this one. I ride down the middle of the road because it is the safest most visible place for me to be on arterials. The few cars that are occasionally inconvenienced by this don't seem to mind.

  57. I've heard it every which way and will make a left on the left side of a traffic circle if it's safe to do so, just as I make any other left turn. It's not lazy. It's efficient.

  58. “In Seattle, the speed limit on residential streets is 25 mph and 30 mph on arterial streets unless otherwise posted.” – from the SDOT website.

  59. I'm questioning his contradiction, not his practice.

    I feel safer in the middle of the road as well, but I also do my best to not impede the movement of traffic as well. I don't ride there “just to slow cars down”.

  60. In the end I think most of us who see them often enough will ignore them, but the message to others who don't use it as much will still be that this is a residential street and not a thoroughfare.
    Maybe they'll have to keep adding more little green people until there isn't any room to drive down the street. That will slow traffic.

  61. Didn't you say yesterday that you “purposely ride my bike in the middle of the road every where in Ballard just to slow cars down”?

    Years ago I was chatting with a friend of a friend who was a state trooper. He was saying how the most dangerous person on the highway is the one who goes into the left lane and then drives one mile under the speed limit to slow the speeders down. They may be theoretically right in that they're not speeding, but the reality is that they cause people to hit the brakes, pass on the right, interrupt the flow of traffic, trigger road rage, and on and on…
    If you want to bike down the middle of the road, that may be your right, but doing so to intentionally impede traffic is a bad idea. If you were a car and not a bike you're supposed to move to the right when you're impeding the flow of traffic, so why do you think that you're exempt from that rule?

  62. It's efficient, but your visibility is greatly reduced and your ability to avoid the oncoming vehicle that you didn't see is greatly reduced as well. If you go into a circle on the right and a car is coming from the left, no problem. If you go into the left and a car is coming from the left, you are in a head on collision with no escape route. Two cars hitting each other at 20mph is just like hitting a wall at 40.
    My Driver Ed teacher had a great saying “When nobody is around is the time when you need to use your directional signal and follow the rules the most, because they are there, you just don't see them.”

  63. Maybe we need to install a set of those directional tire shredders on the traffic islands like they use at parking lot entrances. Go the wrong way and lose your tires!

  64. Hahahaha! Well, I know I will be avoiding it if I can! I can always approach my friend's house from the other side! And then turn around and go back the way I came.

  66. yeah, let's shred the tires on a school bus full of screaming kids in front of YOUR house when Otto tries to negotiate the turn.

    great idea.

  67. I said i take the turn like I do any other left, which is to say that I signal and make sure no other cars are coming and not at 20 miles per hour. You jumped to the conclusion that i'm careening around without a care in the world. I don't make unsafe turns. I don't go left if the circle is overgrown and I can't see oncoming traffic or if there are cars parked at the intersection blocking my view.

    No matter what left I make, if another car is coming your cute driver's ed anecdote is the story. Your facts are cute, but they're overkill.

  68. Oh geez, I don't think we were being truly serious, since we already discussed the fact that some vehicles (like buses) are too big to go around and are therefore exempt and get to go to the left.

  71. I was being facetious yesterday.

    I repeat, I ride in the middle of the road because it is safer than right next to parked cars. I do not impede traffic for more than a block at a time. And based on this thread which is about slowing cars down on arterials, I feel pretty justified.

  72. “The few cars that are occasionally inconvenienced by this don't seem to mind.”
    How do you know? Do you know that the car speeding isn't rushing to the hospital?
    True story, I had a coworker get their hand clipped by a tablesaw. Blood everywhere, fingers dangling so we jump in the car and take off to the hospital since it would be faster than waiting for an ambulance. Halfway there some jackass decides that we shouldn't be speeding and pulls in front and slows down. Weaving to prevent us from passing, we're beeping, he goes slower. The guy kept that up right up until we pulled into the ER entrance of the hospital. Thanks.

  73. Every accident that happens like this is described after the fact with the words “I didn't see ___”
    I know you're not careening around traffic circles throwing beer cans out the window, but why are you so proud of taking the unnecessary risk of cutting the corner when you don't have to? Especially since the rules on this state that you're supposed to keep right?
    Know what? I'm gonna keep on speeding on the side streets. I'll look and make sure it's safe, but I'll keep speeding on the side streets anyway because it's more efficient for me.

  74. you say cutting a corner or taking an unnecessary risk, I say making a left turn after assessing the risk and determining it to be safe. As evidenced by the confusion in this thread, the statute is open for interpretation as there is not even consensus amongst law enforcement (and yes i've asked as well.)

    making a safe left turn != speeding down side streets. So while you say in one sentence that you believe i'm not being over the top irresponsible, you liken my behavior to speeding down side streets.

    Keep up with the hyperbole and anecdotes you love so much.

    as you said, every accident that happens like this starts with “I didn't see…” so maybe we should all just never leave our houses.

  75. The code says to ride as far the the right as is safe, and three feet awway from parked cars is safe. That three feet puts me nearly in the center of the road on our parked-up narrow side streets. I do pull to the right when it is safe to do so as well. If that means a car is tracking with me for a block, then that is the way it goes.

  76. If they mind, they would honk at me, like you did. I have never been honked at. Ergo by your logic, I know they don't mind. Thank you.

  78. I do loves me some of that hyperbole and anecdotes!

    BTW, you did realize you ended your post with some hyperbole? Glad to see your joining the OOHAAS (Overusers Of Hyperbole Anecdotes And Sarcasm) glad to have you as a member.

  79. With all my snark, I forgot to even address the real comment.
    My point here is that taking the left at a roundabout involves more potential for collision than going around the right. You may be fine doing it 99.9999% of the time, but even after looking and assessing your risk, you still have to admit that you are in less of a position to dodge the unexpected.
    I've seen far too many people who get comfortable going to the left come around and nearly go head on with someone trying to turn right.
    The other problem is that even though you may be looking and not going faster than 15mph while making your left, the idiot coming up the street could easily be going over 40mph leaving both of you in a potentially dangerous situation.
    The fact that some law enforcement is ambiguous over this doesn't give you reason to use these roundabouts counter to the way they were designed to be used.
    Just because you do it, doesn't make it ok.

  80. I had to keep up with the hyperbole, so yes I realized.

    There is a risk with every single left hand turn. Period. Everything you describe is a risk that can happen while turning left. I turn left from 15th onto 60th and have to contend with oncoming cars in the middle lane, pedestrians crossing 60th, bikes traveling quickly down 15th crossing 60th, bikes traveling slowly UP 15th, two lanes of oncoming cars AND potential cars speeding to the stop sign 6oth, which is limited in places to 1 lane due to parked cars on either side.

    I prefer my chances taking a left at an occasional traffic planting.

    The fact that the law (and it's enforcers) is ambiguous leaves me perfectly comfortable with doing it my way. And i appreciate you drawing out the worst case scenario in every situation, I still wager that a turn from 15th's center lane is a sh**ton more dangerous than the times i choose to go left instead of right (where i could STILL encounter idiots coming from the right, ahead, etc.)

  82. That left on 15th has nothing to do with going the wrong way around the traffic island. The fact that someone at the DOT or a cop on the beat isn't up on the law or how these things were designed doesn't excuse going the wrong way around them either.
    There's the correct way and the incorrect way. You are choosing the incorrect way. Now you know, so you can't plead ignorance to it. You can try to justify it, like the people who don't wear seatbelts, but you're still wrong.

  83. We've had Ralphie, and Nelson both weigh in, a reference to Otto, but where's Flanders? Oh, wait I think Flanders is putting those green people out there!

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